Memory Suggestions

[mcflytrap]

I'm considering purchasing a computer for video editing. I would be using a workprinter to transfer the film to my computer. But I heard that the transferred media is very large...something like for every 2 seconds of transferred film, it's like a gigabyte..is this correct? How much memory would be suitable for this? 50GB? 100GB? Thanks.

Also, using the workprinter, what is the tranferred media format? MPG? AVI?

-mcfly-

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[Cranium]

Well, the transfer rates depend on what format you're using. I'd say the typical user around these parts is doing DV. That's roughly 3.6 megs a second.
Get the second biggest drive you can afford, and try to stick with 7200RPM. SCSI's not as important anymore.
The format type depends on your capture hardware, though typically you're going to be looking at .avis as a captured file.


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Mikel Z

[Nigel]

Apple's new computer with FCP3 can hold something like 24hours of fottage on something crazy like 30GB harddrive. I don't know all the details but go to thier website. I like Apples I always have. Good Luck

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[seekaee]

I just helped build a friends new PC equipped with AMDs' new XP2000 chip,1024 megs of DDR ram, a 1000 Gig hard drive and a 64 meg KYRO video card all for $1000 bucks from buying at pricewatch.com



[This message has been edited by seekaee (edited January 09, 2002).]

[chaz]

Roger stated:

"So, in the end, you need to make sure that your entire system can handle stop motion capture. Systems like the Matrox RT2000 and RT2500 won't and neither will any of the Canopus products."

Incorrect. I have the Canopus Raptor, and it works fine up to 6fps at full size 720X480 with the analog capture kit.

The card is a DV capture card, but has analog inputs/outputs for overlay. Canopus provided the Analog Capture Kit (free) to enable the card to allow analog capture at low resolutions. It will do up to 360/240 at full speed 29.97, and also has a 352/240 mode, using the codecs you have on your system, as well as uncompressed. Its 720/480 mode drops many frames at 29.97, but does well using Vidcap 32's 'Capture Frames' program up to at least 6fps.

I use it with the Canopus DV codec and it creates files that can play immediately from the card. Of course the speed needs to be changed from the 18 or 24 fps to 29.97 for video.

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[MovieStuff]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Courier, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by chaz:

Incorrect. I have the Canopus Raptor, and it works fine up to 6fps at full size 720X480 with the analog capture kit.

Its 720/480 mode drops many frames at 29.97, but does well using Vidcap 32's 'Capture Frames' program up to at least 6fps.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi Chas!

Are you doing that in the "stop motion capture" mode where YOU click off each frame manually at an estimated 6fps or is the COMPUTER capturing 6fps automatically?

Again, I could be wrong, but I know of no Canopus product that will allow YOU to click off "stop motion" frames. They might allow you to capture "still frames" or it might do a sort of "time lapse" at a preprogrammed 6fps rate, but that is not the same thing as "stop motion capture".

Please tell me I'm wrong because that would be another stop motion capture program that would work with the WorkPrinter!

Roger

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Roger Evans
MovieStuff
http://www.afterimagephoto.tv/moviestuff.html

[chaz]

Yes, stop motion. Vidcap32 calls it 'Frames', but it will capture a frame for every click of the mouse, until you tell it to stop, at which time it writes to an avi file. You choose the codec and frame rate before capture. The frame rate is what the file will play back after capture, it has nothing to do with the actual capture rate in this instance. Vidcap32 is a Microsoft program.

I seem to remember having a similar discussion with you when I was building my own transfer projector. I was the one that reminded you about 'priming the pump' by capturing a frame before the main capturing. We had a lengthy discussion about my methods.

By the way, mine is still going strong, although I don't use it all that much. I am interested in what quality increases I might get by getting one of your machines with the special lens/mirror. I'll check out your site.

Maybe you would sell me just the lens and mirror and other items without the projector?

I think once word gets around how nice the transfers are, you will be very busy. Have you thought of a patent? Not sure if a company would want to buy your idea, but they might steal it if it becomes popular.

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[MovieStuff]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Courier, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by chaz:
Yes, stop motion. Vidcap32 calls it 'Frames', but it will capture a frame for every click of the mouse, until you tell it to stop, at which time it writes to an avi file.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ahhhh. No wonder the Canopus people didn't know what I was talking about. I talked to them forever asking about stop motion capture and they were like,"Duh. No, it won't do THAT." even though I gave them a detailed description of what was supposed to happen when you click the mouse. Typical. But that's great to know! Now, let me get this straight (if I can): The Canopus Raptor is a capture board/software combination that will, by itself, do stop motion or is it a capture board that requires an interface with Premier to perform Stop Motion Capture? Sorry if I seem a little dense. I'm just not that familiar with all their products.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Courier, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by chaz:

You choose the codec and frame rate before capture. The frame rate is what the file will play back after capture, it has nothing to do with the actual capture rate in this instance.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's handy. So, when you specify 24fps, does it actually play at 23.97 or does it play at 24? I'm just curious how it interpolates the frames.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Courier, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by chaz:

I seem to remember having a similar discussion with you when I was building my own transfer projector. I was the one that reminded you about 'priming the pump' by capturing a frame before the main capturing. We had a lengthy discussion about my methods.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ah, yes. I remember the conversation now. Priming the pump is an issue on Premier, as well. That was one of the first things I noticed when I tried doing rapid capture.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Courier, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by chaz:

By the way, mine is still going strong, although I don't use it all that much. I am interested in what quality increases I might get by getting one of your machines with the special lens/mirror. I'll check out your site. Maybe you would sell me just the lens and mirror and other items without the projector?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh, sure! They're for sale at the bottom of the page. Just let me know!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Courier, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by chaz:

I think once word gets around how nice the transfers are, you will be very busy. Have you thought of a patent? Not sure if a company would want to buy your idea, but they might steal it if it becomes popular.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've been the patent route a couple of times. Sometimes it's just more effecient to put it out there so that it's in public domain and then NO one can patent. That way you don't have any huge amount of money tied up in lawyers and the whole patenting process. I certainly don't want to spend as much money as I'll make just to patent the darned thing! At least this way people know the product and who I am. If someone else wants to tackle all the problems I've already dealt with and also try and keep the price as low, they are welcome to have a go. It's not as simple as it looks.

Roger

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Roger Evans
MovieStuff
http://www.afterimagephoto.tv/moviestuff.html

[chaz]

"Now, let me get this straight (if I can): The Canopus Raptor is a capture board/software combination that will, by itself, do stop motion or is it a capture board that requires an interface with Premier to perform Stop Motion Capture?"

The Raptor is a DV capture card and has software to batch capture (Raptor Video) and software to edit. (Raptor Edit) It is sold as DV capture only. It has analog in/out for hardware overlay to the computer monitor. It uses your cameras' hardware dv codec to display to the computer monitor.

They introduced software to capture analog. Low res as I mentioned. Raptor Video software will capture stills (bmp) with each click of the mouse, or motion video automatically. I found I had problems with sporadic sync causing black frames, as well as having to render all these bmp's to an avi. So I tried Premiere, no luck.

I found Vidcap32 to be the ticket. Perfect stability/sync, and writes to an avi to boot! Remember I had to adjust the microswitch on my projector to avoid the black frames?

"That's handy. So, when you specify 24fps, does it actually play at 23.97 or does it play at 24? I'm just curious how it interpolates the frames."

Not sure. I know I get a video frame for every film frame. I then set speed to 60% in MSP6, and I get a beautiful video. I haven't had any problems in this area, such as shuddering or jerky motion. My S8 film is all shot at 18 fps. (except the 32 fps slo-mo stuff)

"It's not as simple as it looks."

You can say that again. Most people wouldn't have the patience or expertise to put this together. Much less sell it with a warranty. Mine works fine, and I will be buying a condenser assembly this year from you. But I wouldn't trust my machine to too many others. It has a new dc motor and gears, and I operate the motor with a variable dc power supply. I also put a dimmer on the 80 watt ac bulb to avoid burning. This also gives me an additional means of adjusting the white balance. I use the Sony 3 chip TRV900.

I noticed some films are not focused everywhere on the frame. Some are OK. I thought this might be my projector's gate, but have experienced it with other films and other projectors. Anyone else notice this?

chaz

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[MovieStuff]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Courier, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by chaz:

I found Vidcap32 to be the ticket. Perfect stability/sync, and writes to an avi to boot!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sounds great! You probably already answered this but, just for the sake of clarity, what is the frame size? 720x480 at high resolution or is it smaller? Also, since these are AVI files, then you no longer have these giant bit map files to string together. Therefore, is it fair to assume that 30 frames captured using the Canopus/Vidcap32 will be the same total file size as 30 frames captured in real time as a running video?


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Courier, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by chaz:
I know I get a video frame for every film frame. I then set speed to 60% in MSP6, and I get a beautiful video.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm a bit confused. I thought you set the playback speed to 18fps BEFORE you captured. Why would you need to change the speed to 60% if the playback speed had already been set? Sounds like the frames are captured one to one, just like the WorkPrinter and then the speed is adjusted on the timeline, just as the WorkPrinte does. What's the purpose of setting the playback speed ahead of time if you still have to adjust it after the fact? Am I missing something?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Courier, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by chaz:

I also put a dimmer on the 80 watt ac bulb to avoid burning.
I noticed some films are not focused everywhere on the frame.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, I recommend changing the bulb out to a cheap 40 watt bulb like I used. See:
http://www.afterimagephoto.tv/bulbs.html

The heat from a larger bulb can cause the film to buckle and warp, which will cause the edges to go out of focus. The smaller 40 watt bulb is only a dollar at the hardware store and lasts 1500 hours! Also, if you use the condenser lens I make, you will have depth of field out the wa-zoo. No more soft edges!

Roger

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Roger Evans
MovieStuff
http://www.afterimagephoto.tv/moviestuff.html